19 Juni 2007 04:39
What's the problem here? Why does an administrator need to check this page?
10 Juli 2008 02:59
please change the word 'geen' into 'niet', more appropriate and more accurate (better use of dutch grammar).
10 Juli 2008 02:56
10 Juli 2008 12:30
It's an accepted translation isn't it?
10 Juli 2008 18:26
It doesn't matter - if it's wrong it should be changed. Is it wrong?
10 Juli 2008 22:12
Yes, it is wrong.
I wonder what expert allowed this translation.
As far as I can see: JP? He's not an expert in dutch, is he...?
10 Juli 2008 22:26
I'm not sure.
First of all:
You can say 'zeg geen ja!'
But not 'zeg niet ja!'
Or a common sentence:
'Daar zeg ik geen nee tegen.'
'Geen' can't be used in indirect discourse; 'Niet' is required here, like:
'Zeg niet dat je van me houdt'
in stead of direct
'zeg geen "ik hou van je"'
of 'zeg niet "ik hou van je"'
'Zeg geen' feels like only 1 word will follow, almost like a noun (ja, nee etc.), as niet feels like it announces a relative clause...
To say (a) 'ik hou van je' sounds to me as 1 concept/understanding, so 'geen' would be correct.
Moreover, that sounds more natural to me too
, but I tried to found my meaning first.
10 Juli 2008 22:33
Why exactly do you feel like it's wrong Jollyo?
If you want to use 'niet', a colon would be appropriate:
'Zeg niet: "Ik hou van je"'
This makes it as if it's said right now by someone, while the translation as it is now is more general.
Same thing goes for:
Zeg geen dankjewel
Zeg niet: "dankjewel"
10 Juli 2008 22:33
like it stands now: don't say no 'I love you'
Jollyo's suggestion: don't say 'I love you'
10 Juli 2008 22:35
I'm sorry kfeto but you are mistaken.
Zeg = Say
Geen = no
Ik hou van je = I love you
Where do see a double negative?
10 Juli 2008 22:38
Also please keep in mind that word-for-word translations to English won't work, most certainly not in grammar problems like this one :P
10 Juli 2008 22:42
Zeg niet dat je van me houdt. Laat me het voelen!
sounds best though...
10 Juli 2008 22:51
It might not be it's grammatical mirror image but I still think
'zeg geen ...' is most accurately rendered as don't say no ...' but soit
10 Juli 2008 23:37
What a huge discussion.
Okay, I'll add to it.
Mainly to the part Martijn wrote (22:26 h)
You were almost there...
The main thing in this sentence (in view of this translation, that is) lies in the second part "Laat het mij voelen". This means, that the first part "Zeg niet" etc... is NOT followed by one concept but - as you call it - a relative clause.
GEEN is grammatically wrong, because it is actually a word which basis stems from NIET EEN, NIET DE, or NIET HET that is always followed by a noun.
You're example "zeg geen nee" is actually an example of this grammar rule. Because the word "nee" is used as a noun.
No feelings, just applying the rules as they are.
10 Juli 2008 23:51
kfeto, I think your mistake is in the English. "Don't say no" means "Don't say 'No'" (Hayır deme) - we don't have double negatives in English. I'd say, let's leave the resolution of this issue to the Dutch experts.
11 Juli 2008 10:54
Ah of course Jollyo, I think I got a bit confused by those exceptions. I think you are right.
(I've had a good night sleep over this :P)
Still needs a colon ( : ) though. But as the original hasn't got one too, I think that isn't very important here, is it?
Geen > Niet
12 Juli 2008 01:34
As for this colon, you are right. There could be one, but not necessarily, since it is not a citation.
I hope you slept well...
Who is going to edit this?CC: kaja cucumis
12 Juli 2008 18:07
13 Juli 2008 00:08