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Vertaling - Duits-Engels - Vollständig mit traditionellen Chorälen...

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Titel
Vollständig mit traditionellen Chorälen...
Tekst
Opgestuurd door milkman
Uitgangs-taal: Duits

(144) Vollständig mit traditionellen Chorälen übereinstimmende Zeilen im Choralhaften sind jedoch selten und dann wenig charakteristisch, indem sie in mehreren Chorälen vorkommen und als Floskeln des Choralidioms gelten können oder allgemein hymnischen Charakter haben. Der "Choral" aus der Klavierfuge e-Moll op.35/1 dient hier als Beispiel, da er allgemein als besonders konkret in seinen Anklängen gilt. Immer wieder wird versucht, die einzelnen Zeilen auf traditionelle Choräle zu beziehen [35]. Allerdings sind sowohl die als konkret angesehenen Anklänge als auch die Rückführung auf ein Modell nicht ohne Weiteres haltbar und wesentlich weniger plausibel als behauptet. "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott" als Vorbild anzuführen, ist zwar durch die beiden melodisch ähnlichen Kurzzeilen und die übereinstimmende Schlusszeile überaus suggestiv [36]. Die einzelnen Zeilen koenen jedoch ohne Weiteres mit unterschiedlichen sogar der gaegigsten Choräle in Zusammenheng (145) gebracht werden (vgl. NB 36).

Titel
Mendelssohn 144
Vertaling
Engels

Vertaald door Lein
Doel-taal: Engels

(144) However, lines in "choralhaften" that correspond completely with traditional chorales are rare and not very characteristic, whereas they do occur in several chorales and can be regarded as common expressions in the choral language or have a general hymnic character. The "Choral" from the piano fugue in e minor op.35/1 serves as an example here, since its harmonies are generally considered to be particularly concrete. Again and again attempts are made to attribute the individual lines to traditional chorales [35]. However both the harmonies which are regarded as concrete ones, and the tracing back to a model can not be maintained without difficulty and are substantially less plausible than stated. To take "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott" as an example is especially suggestive because of the two melodically similar short lines and the corresponding final line [36]. However, the individual lines can easily be connected with even the most common corales (145) (cf NB 36).
Details voor de vertaling
As far as I can see, choralhaften (adj) is mostly used to refer to choral-like works; however when it comes to the works of Mendelssohn, the word seems to be used as a noun to refer to a category of choral-like work that looks to me to be specific for the composer.
Laatst goedgekeurd of bewerkt door lilian canale - 3 september 2008 05:18





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18 augustus 2008 11:17

Lein
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Just out of interest, Milkman - why do you need these texts about Mendelssohn? Just curious!

26 augustus 2008 07:13

Shaneeae
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I believe "Anklänge" should be translated as "harmonies" in this context.

"Choral", being an adjective, cannot be used as a noun. The correct noun is "chorale".

Also, "cf." is the English counterpart for "vgl."

26 augustus 2008 10:47

Lein
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I'm not sure about "harmonies" but you may be right there.
As for chorale, my mistake, you are absolutely right (Lilian, tell me if and when I should change it please as I see it's being evaluated).
As far as I'm concerned, 'cf' and 'see' have roughly the same meaning here so I don't mind - I can change it if you prefer.

26 augustus 2008 17:42

italo07
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How Shaneeae says, vgl. means cf..

30 augustus 2008 19:33

lilian canale
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Ok Lein,
Have you made all the changes you intended to?
If so, I think we can validate this one.

31 augustus 2008 23:39

jollyo
Aantal berichten: 330
There are still some things I think should be adjusted.

hymnical
hymnal

e-flat minor
E minor

gängstigen:
varied
common

vgl. = vergleiche = cf. (i.e. compare)
not 'see'


1 september 2008 10:44

Lein
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A hymnal is a book containing hymns; hymnical is an adjective.

e-Moll is not the same note as e, but half a note below it so e flat.

gägigstigen

1 september 2008 10:47

Lein
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Go ahead Lilian, I've incorporated Shaneeae's suggestions as well. Thank you, shaneeae and jollyo!

1 september 2008 11:57

jollyo
Aantal berichten: 330
Lein,

I agree that a hymnal is a songbook of hymns. It also actually is the adjective!
(see http://www.dict.cc/?s=hymnal%3B and of course our famous Van Dale dictionary)

Same goes for e-flat minor vs. E minor
see http://www.dict.cc/?s=e+flat
and http://www.dict.cc/?s=e%2FMoll

In English vs. Dutch vs. German:
e-flat minor Es mineur e-Moll
E minor E mineur (ookwel e) es-Moll

Please check once again!



1 september 2008 12:11

Lein
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Ah, ok, changed e-flat to e and hymnical to hymnic.

2 september 2008 19:10

lilian canale
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Everyone happy?

2 september 2008 19:15

Lein
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I am...

2 september 2008 21:56

jollyo
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Likewise!


16 oktober 2008 17:15

milkman
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Hey everybody,
Although this one is long approved I cannot state enough how much you're all have been so helpful!
You just don't know how much it helps my research.
Thank you


CC: lilian canale

16 oktober 2008 17:18

Lein
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