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Text original - Llatí - Large prophetia est denunciationis futuroru...

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Large prophetia est denunciationis futuroru...
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Enviat per jairhaas
Idioma orígen: Llatí

Large prophetia est denunciationis futuroru verbis, vel factis expressio figurativa, & sm hoc oe-s libri veteris testi pn-t dici, prophetales, vel continere prophetiam, quia figuras futuroru manifestat: oi-a na-q; q- sunt in veteri testo sunt q-dam figura eorum, q- accidere debebant in nouo, sic patet prima ad Chor. ca. 10. O-ia in figura contigebant illis: speialiter , prophetia dr- denunciatio futuri verbo, vel facto p. hoi-e habere spum propheticum, & hoc mo- oe-s libri scripti a prophetis dum tn- ipsi, prophetice p-dixerint ea, q- ?-tinent in eis. s. praenunciando de futuris, dnr- libri prophetales, & sic libri Palmorum, & Danielis sunt prophetales, qm- denunciationes q-dam futuroru in eis sunt. specialissime au-t prophetia dr- denunciatio futuri, vel factis anthonomasice, & per viros prophetas, & isto mo- differt prophetia a Psalmis, & Daniele, quia illae non sunt denunciationes anthonomasice facte. Dn-t et qui hoc modo Iosue iudicium Samuel, & duo libri Regu- prophetales sunt, quia erant aviris, q. sunt anthonomasice prophetae.
Notes sobre la traducció
The text is typed clearly, but the author abbreviates a lot and makes it very difficult to decipher the text. Whenever I have put a "-" after a letter, it is where the author put an abbreviation sign over that very letter.
I am willing to supply an image of the text if the translator so wishes.
8 Gener 2010 08:43





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13 Gener 2010 16:19

Aneta B.
Nombre de missatges: 4487
This is an original script of the text sent me by Jair.

original script

I just try to decipher the text, but maybe somebody could HELP us here. The medieval abbreviations are sometimes so mysterious!

This is what I have done until now:

Large prophetia est denunciationis futurorum verbis, vel factorum expressio figurativa, etiam hoc omnes libri veteris testamenti pn-t dici, prophetales, vel continere prophetiam, quia figuras futurorum manifestat: omnia na-q; quae sunt in veteri testamento sunt quaedam figura eorum, quam accidere debebant in nouo, sic patet prima ad Corinthios circa 10. Omnia in figura contigebant illis: specialiter , prophetia dicitur denunciatio futuri verbo, vel factorum p. hoi-e habere ..sporum?? propheticum, & hoc modo oe-s libri scripti a prophetis dum tn- ipsi, prophetice praedixerint ea, quae continent in eis. s. praenunciando de futuris, dicuntur libri prophetales, & sic libri Psalmorum, & Danielis sunt prophetales, quorum denunciationes quaedam futurorum in eis sunt. specialissime autem prophetia dicitur denunciatio futuri, vel factorum anthonomasice, & per viros prophetas, & isto modo? differt prophetia a Psalmis, & Daniele, quia illae non sunt denunciationes anthonomasice factorum. Dicunt et quod hoc modo Iosue iudicum Samuel, & duo libri Regum prophetales sunt, quia erant a viris, qui sunt anthonomasice prophetae.


9 Gener 2010 20:28

Aneta B.
Nombre de missatges: 4487
Efee, I need your help...

CC: Efylove

12 Gener 2010 14:11

Aneta B.
Nombre de missatges: 4487
"& sm"
Jair, I think that the abbreviation sign in the middle doesn't mean "s", this is only a sign which indicates simply that some letters are lacking. And I would decipher it as "etiam"

ca. is a short for "circa" and means "about, approximately"
Chor. can be short for "Chorus", but I am not sure of that.
and this "io" it can be a numeral indeed, but not "10" of course. Maybe it is
ІϽ = 500 (later “D”)?

12 Gener 2010 18:30

jairhaas
Nombre de missatges: 261
Could it be that "oes" = "omnes"?

12 Gener 2010 18:35

jairhaas
Nombre de missatges: 261
"pnt" seems to be "ponunt" or something like that, since the intention seems to be that from this point of view (that figurative speech is prophetical), all books of the Bible could be considered prophetical (figurative = past events foresee similar events in the future). What do you reckon?

12 Gener 2010 18:40

jairhaas
Nombre de missatges: 261
I got it: Chor. refers to the book of Corinthians (NT), he is saying that there there is a proof that events in the OT foresee (figuratively) events in the NT.Now all we have to do is to read through that book and find the place (a reference to the OT, probably).

12 Gener 2010 18:48

jairhaas
Nombre de missatges: 261
"Dnr" = dicentur?

12 Gener 2010 18:50

Aneta B.
Nombre de missatges: 4487
Great job, Jair. It was very helpful indeed. I'll try to deal with the translation now...
In the meantime, try to find the reference in the Old Testament, ok?

12 Gener 2010 18:58

jairhaas
Nombre de missatges: 261
The reference is in the NT, and it is a reference to the OT. Unfortunately I have to go now, I'll try tomorrow morning. Good Night!

12 Gener 2010 19:43

Aneta B.
Nombre de missatges: 4487
Ok, I'd like to tell you only that if we look into the Ancient Greek New Testament original, (into the First letter to the Corinthians) the word "προφητεία" (prophecy) appears only four times: 1 Cor 12,10; 13,2.8; 1,22; 14.6.

Hope it is useful.

CC:jairhaas

15 Gener 2010 08:19

jairhaas
Nombre de missatges: 261
Aneta, i have gone over your translation:

1. In this case "ca." must be "capitulus"

2. I understand the general intention of the passage thus: Broadly speaking, prophecy is a figurative prediction of the future in words or deeds. Psalms and Daniel are indeed prophecy from the point of view of foretelling the future figuratively, but they are nevertheless a bit different, since they do not predict the future by relating past events (Psalms = hymns; Daniel = metaphorical visions). This is supposed to justify why Psalms and Daniel were not placed in the prophetic section (afterwords he rejects this solution b/c Daniel does contain events, and for other reasons also).

3. "Aut." is probably "autem".

4. Aviris should be men, not husbands.

5. I liked the translation of "anthonomasice" - in some sense, or in some different sense, I suggest translating thus is all cases.

15 Gener 2010 10:15

Aneta B.
Nombre de missatges: 4487
1. ca --> capitula?

2. Yes, indeed.

3. Yes, this is why I have changed it already before in the text above and have put it in bold,

4. aviris --> should be read: "a viris" - by men. I typed men/husbands, because sometimes "husbands" stand for "men" in such a kind of expressions like "husbands of glory"

5.


15 Gener 2010 10:58

jairhaas
Nombre de missatges: 261
If capitula means chapter, the answer is yes.

I just submitted a short passage for translation.

On friday afternoons, Jews wish each other "Shabbat Shalom!" - may you have a peaceful day of rest! This is what I wish you also.
(In Israel sundays are regular workdays)

15 Gener 2010 11:15

Aneta B.
Nombre de missatges: 4487
capitula = capitulum in plural, but I think I met the word also as a singular somewhere.
Yes it is sth like chapter or sth smaller than chapter..

Shalom aleihem, dear Jair!

16 Gener 2010 18:58

jairhaas
Nombre de missatges: 261
Aneta, I think time has come for you to submit your translation and get the points that you more than deserve. I, for my part, am satisfied, since we have succeded in deciphering the main gist of the passage, and this is enough for me in order to complete my research. Also, submitting it might evoke some helpful responses (from Efy, for example, where has she gone?), and further improve it (and our knowledge of Abbr. in medieval Latin). Thank you so much for your extreme willingness to help me. I'll be back soon with additional challenging tasks.

By the way "Shalom Aleihem" is when you meet someone you haven't seen for a while. In order to say "bye" or "see you" - you use "Lehitra'ot" (to meet again) or "Lehishtame'a" (to hear from you).