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תרגום - גרמנית-אנגלית - Vollständig mit traditionellen Chorälen...מצב נוכחי תרגום
הטקסט נגיש בשפות הבאות:  
קטגוריה כתיבה חופשית - אומנות / יצירה / דמיון  בקשת התרגום הזו היא עבור "משמעות בלבד". | Vollständig mit traditionellen Chorälen... | | שפת המקור: גרמנית
(144) Vollständig mit traditionellen Chorälen übereinstimmende Zeilen im Choralhaften sind jedoch selten und dann wenig charakteristisch, indem sie in mehreren Chorälen vorkommen und als Floskeln des Choralidioms gelten können oder allgemein hymnischen Charakter haben. Der "Choral" aus der Klavierfuge e-Moll op.35/1 dient hier als Beispiel, da er allgemein als besonders konkret in seinen Anklängen gilt. Immer wieder wird versucht, die einzelnen Zeilen auf traditionelle Choräle zu beziehen [35]. Allerdings sind sowohl die als konkret angesehenen Anklänge als auch die Rückführung auf ein Modell nicht ohne Weiteres haltbar und wesentlich weniger plausibel als behauptet. "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott" als Vorbild anzuführen, ist zwar durch die beiden melodisch ähnlichen Kurzzeilen und die übereinstimmende Schlusszeile überaus suggestiv [36]. Die einzelnen Zeilen koenen jedoch ohne Weiteres mit unterschiedlichen sogar der gaegigsten Choräle in Zusammenheng (145) gebracht werden (vgl. NB 36). |
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| | תרגוםאנגלית
תורגם על ידי  Lein | שפת המטרה: אנגלית
(144) However, lines in "choralhaften" that correspond completely with traditional chorales are rare and not very characteristic, whereas they do occur in several chorales and can be regarded as common expressions in the choral language or have a general hymnic character. The "Choral" from the piano fugue in e minor op.35/1 serves as an example here, since its harmonies are generally considered to be particularly concrete. Again and again attempts are made to attribute the individual lines to traditional chorales [35]. However both the harmonies which are regarded as concrete ones, and the tracing back to a model can not be maintained without difficulty and are substantially less plausible than stated. To take "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott" as an example is especially suggestive because of the two melodically similar short lines and the corresponding final line [36]. However, the individual lines can easily be connected with even the most common corales (145) (cf NB 36). | | As far as I can see, choralhaften (adj) is mostly used to refer to choral-like works; however when it comes to the works of Mendelssohn, the word seems to be used as a noun to refer to a category of choral-like work that looks to me to be specific for the composer. |
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הודעה אחרונה | | | | |
18 אוגוסט 2008 11:17 | | 
Leinמספר הודעות: 3389 | Just out of interest, Milkman - why do you need these texts about Mendelssohn? Just curious!  | | |
26 אוגוסט 2008 07:13 | | | I believe "Anklänge" should be translated as "harmonies" in this context.
"Choral", being an adjective, cannot be used as a noun. The correct noun is "chorale".
Also, "cf." is the English counterpart for "vgl." | | |
26 אוגוסט 2008 10:47 | |
Leinמספר הודעות: 3389 | I'm not sure about "harmonies" but you may be right there.
As for chorale, my mistake, you are absolutely right (Lilian, tell me if and when I should change it please as I see it's being evaluated).
As far as I'm concerned, 'cf' and 'see' have roughly the same meaning here so I don't mind - I can change it if you prefer. | | |
26 אוגוסט 2008 17:42 | | | How Shaneeae says, vgl. means cf.. | | |
30 אוגוסט 2008 19:33 | | | Ok Lein,
Have you made all the changes you intended to?
If so, I think we can validate this one. | | |
31 אוגוסט 2008 23:39 | | | There are still some things I think should be adjusted.
hymnical 
hymnal 
e-flat minor
E minor
gängstigen:
varied
common
vgl. = vergleiche = cf. (i.e. compare)
not 'see'
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1 ספטמבר 2008 10:44 | |
Leinמספר הודעות: 3389 | A hymnal is a book containing hymns; hymnical is an adjective.
e-Moll is not the same note as e, but half a note below it so e flat.
gägigstigen | | |
1 ספטמבר 2008 10:47 | |
Leinמספר הודעות: 3389 | Go ahead Lilian, I've incorporated Shaneeae's suggestions as well. Thank you, shaneeae and jollyo! | | |
1 ספטמבר 2008 11:57 | | | Lein,
I agree that a hymnal is a songbook of hymns. It also actually is the adjective!
(see http://www.dict.cc/?s=hymnal%3B and of course our famous Van Dale dictionary)
Same goes for e-flat minor vs. E minor
see http://www.dict.cc/?s=e+flat
and http://www.dict.cc/?s=e%2FMoll
In English vs. Dutch vs. German:
e-flat minor Es mineur e-Moll
E minor E mineur (ookwel e) es-Moll
Please check once again!
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1 ספטמבר 2008 12:11 | |
Leinמספר הודעות: 3389 | Ah, ok, changed e-flat to e and hymnical to hymnic. | | |
2 ספטמבר 2008 19:10 | | | | | |
2 ספטמבר 2008 19:15 | |
Leinמספר הודעות: 3389 | | | |
2 ספטמבר 2008 21:56 | | | Likewise!
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16 אוקטובר 2008 17:15 | | | Hey everybody,
Although this one is long approved I cannot state enough how much you're all have been so helpful!
You just don't know how much it helps my research.
Thank you
 CC: lilian canale | | |
16 אוקטובר 2008 17:18 | |
Leinמספר הודעות: 3389 | |
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