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Vertimas - Vokiečių-Anglų - Was mein Gott will

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Šis tekstas išverstas į šias kalbas: VokiečiųAnglų

Kategorija Laisvas rašymas - Menai / Kūryba / Vaizduotė

Tai "bendrosios prasmės" vertimo prašymas.
Pavadinimas
Was mein Gott will
Tekstas
Pateikta milkman
Originalo kalba: Vokiečių

(155) Gerd Zacher analysiert, wie auch andere, die erste Sonate als Auseinandersetzung des traditionellen Chorals mit den formalen Aspekten des Sonatenhauptsatzprinzips, wie es explizit im Kopfsatz geschehe, auf den die folgenden Sätze bezogen sind [68]. Diese Analyse sowie sein Versuch, den Choral "Was mein Gott will" aus dem ersten Satz bzw. dessen erste Zeile in allen Sätzen nachzuweisen [69], mag problematisch und im einzelnen angreifbar sein. Tatsächlich kann man den ersten Satz nur mit einiger Mühe als Sonatenhauptsatz im engeren (156) Sinne versehen [70]. Außerdem handelt es sich teilweise um relativ uncharakteristische Wendungen des Chorals, die als Verbindungen zwischen den Sätzen angesehen werden, so dass ein Zusammenhang nicht mit Sicherheit festgestellt werden kann. Aber nicht, ob nun Wendungen unmittelbar aus dem Choral abgeleitet sind, ist entscheidend, sondern die deutlich gemachten Bezüge. Darin zeigt sich die zugrundeliegende Idee, die diese zyklisch Form bestimmt. Alle Sätze sind dialogisch und kontrastiv strukturiert. Das tritt durch den Einsatz der verschiedenen Werke der Orgel und durch große dynamische Brüche hervor. In dieser Art stehen sich auch Kopfsatz und Finale gegenüber. Zwischen ihnen gibt es eine Entwicklung. In ersterem dialogisieren Fugato bzw. dessen Thema und Choral, in letzterem virtuoses Spielwerk und schlichte liedhafte Melodie. Auch in den Orgelsonaten dient der Choral nirgends der Überhöhung am Ende der musikalischen Entwicklung. Selbst das ff-Zitat zum Schluss des ersten Satzes die zwei Choralzeilen im dynamischen Kontrast gegenüberstehen [71]. Die dialogisch Struktur wird fortgeführt.

Pavadinimas
Was mein Gott will (What my God wants)
Vertimas
Anglų

Išvertė Shaneeae
Kalba, į kurią verčiama: Anglų

(155) Gerd Zacher analyses, as do others, the first sonata as a study of the traditional chorale set against formal aspects of sonata theory, as it explicitly occurs in the first movement to which the following movements are related [68]. This analysis, as well as his attempt to establish proof of the chorale "Was mein Gott will" from the first movement and from the first line in each movement respectively [69], may be problematic and quite contestable. In fact, the first movement can, only with some difficulty, be regarded as the sonata theme in the narrower (156) sense [70]. Furthermore, partly because of the relatively uncharacteristic chorale phrases, which are regarded as transitions between the movements, it is difficult to identify the junctures with certainty. But it is not crucial whether the phrases were derived directly from the chorale, but rather that the references are clearly made. In that respect you will see the underlying idea that defines this cyclic form. All the movements are structured dialogically and contrastively. This stands out through the entrances of various organ works and through great dynamic breaks. In this way the first movement and finale oppose each other. Between them is a development. In the first there is a fugato dialogue and its theme and chorale, and in the latter a virtuoso-like mechanism and simple songlike melody. Even in organ sonatas, the chorale never plays a role in building intensity at the end of the musical development. The citation of the ff passage at the conclusion of the first movement sets the two chorale lines against each other in dynamic contrast [71]. The dialogic structure will continue.
Validated by lilian canale - 3 rugsėjis 2008 05:10





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30 rugpjūtis 2008 06:27

Shaneeae
Žinučių kiekis: 55
I originally translated "ff-Zitat" as "ff indication", which refers to the instruction to play loudly .

"ff passage" refers to the section of music where this instruction is to be followed.

"ff-citation" is a more literal translation, but it does not exist in English musical terminology.

I think "indication" fits better, but "passage" also makes sense.

30 rugpjūtis 2008 13:05

jollyo
Žinučių kiekis: 330
I'm an active (Dutch) musician and here our international conductors DO speak of citations...


30 rugpjūtis 2008 20:46

Shaneeae
Žinučių kiekis: 55
I am also a musician, though not professional.
And yes, there are citations, but not "ff citations". Citations are elements of music borrowed from another musical work. It would be silly to cite an ff symbol. However, "citation" could work if it was worded this way: "the citation of the ff passage" or "the cited ff passage"

30 rugpjūtis 2008 23:09

jollyo
Žinučių kiekis: 330
Strictly spoken, you are right.
Although the German text does actually say ´ff-Zitat´ (or ´ff-citation') which doesn't appear to be the best of German language either, grammarwise.
And it's not uncommon to just say ff-citation.

Probably the writer means a cited passage, but that is not really obvious from this piece of text, since this is merely a very small piece of quite an article.

I think is might be wise to use one of the two last named options.


31 rugpjūtis 2008 05:33

Shaneeae
Žinučių kiekis: 55
Alright then, I think "the citation of the ff passage" would be the best one. But the translation has already been accepted and I can't edit it anymore. I will call an administrator to change it.

31 rugpjūtis 2008 08:57

pias
Žinučių kiekis: 8113
This one is for you Lilian.

CC: lilian canale

31 rugpjūtis 2008 14:40

lilian canale
Žinučių kiekis: 14972
Done!
Just check if the edition is correct since my musical knowledge is (almost) 0.

31 rugpjūtis 2008 18:28

Shaneeae
Žinučių kiekis: 55
Yes, it's correct. Thank you.

31 rugpjūtis 2008 23:03

jollyo
Žinučių kiekis: 330
Shaneea,

Sorry, I see two more and last improvements.
One is just a typo: 'virtusoso'.
I think you mean to write virtuoso.

Secondly, 'Auseinandersetzung' is not an examination, but an explanation.
Would you agree?



After these, I'll definately shut up about this one...

1 rugsėjis 2008 02:40

Shaneeae
Žinučių kiekis: 55
Yes I did mean to write 'virtuoso'.

However, I do not agree that 'Auseinandersetzung' is an explanation. Though if you really think that 'examination' is wrong, then i would suggest 'confrontation' instead.

1 rugsėjis 2008 11:39

jollyo
Žinučių kiekis: 330
I do not mean 'confrontation' either. How does he want to confront, and with what?

'Auseinandersetzung' means - how shall I put it - to clarify, to account for.
(http://www.dict.cc/?s=auseinandersetzen)


2 rugsėjis 2008 01:37

Shaneeae
Žinučių kiekis: 55
What I meant by confrontation is that within the sonata, the traditional chorales are at a confrontation with the formal aspects of sonata theory.
However, I just found a very helpful website: http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?o=3021;service=deen;iservice=de-en-ex;query=auseinandersetzung
After reading some of the examples, I feel that the best translation would be "as a study of the traditional chorale set against formal aspects of sonata theory"

2 rugsėjis 2008 00:00

jollyo
Žinučių kiekis: 330
Hi Shaneeae,

I agree with your latest proposal. This one does match the original the most.
I assume you will take care of the adjustment of the translation.

Btw., very interesting and helpful site that I didn't know of, yet. Thanks for the tip. I'll add it to my list for future use.


2 rugsėjis 2008 00:19

lilian canale
Žinučių kiekis: 14972
Hi guys, could you please check if the edition I've made is correct?

I feel there are so many "as" in the sentence.

2 rugsėjis 2008 01:47

jollyo
Žinučių kiekis: 330
Reading it through, I agree there is a lot of "as".
Perhaps the first sentence can be changed to:
..., amongst others, the first sonata in a study of the traditional chorale set against formal aspects of sonata theory, as it (... etc.)

The 8th line from the top:
* which are regarded as transitions ...
might be changed into:
* ... are regarded to be transitions ...

What do you think?



2 rugsėjis 2008 01:46

Shaneeae
Žinučių kiekis: 55
I few words are missing, and I just noticed that I had typed "an study" instead of "a study".

The first sentence should read like this:
(155) Gerd Zacher analyses, as do others, the first sonata as a study of...

2 rugsėjis 2008 02:10

Shaneeae
Žinučių kiekis: 55
Changing it to "are regarded to be transitions" would also requre a change of "because of the relatively..." into "because the relatively...".
But this would give it a different meaning.
However If you just meant changing "as" to "to be", even though they have the same meaning, "as" sounds smoother and more natural than "to be" in this case.

I also noticed that I missed a word(teilweise) in that sentence. It should be: Furthermore, partly because of...

2 rugsėjis 2008 03:06

lilian canale
Žinučių kiekis: 14972
Shaneeae, I think there are some things you should edit yourself, therefore I'll reset this translation into evaluation and accept it only when all the changes you'd like to make are over, OK?

2 rugsėjis 2008 07:14

Shaneeae
Žinučių kiekis: 55
OK, I've made the changes, but I think we should wait for jollyo to agree before you accept it.

3 rugsėjis 2008 22:29

jollyo
Žinučių kiekis: 330



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